BIG SHOCK !!! .
Unbelievable. I thought it was certain Eastern Orthodoxy would preach a physical, eternal Hell, in a Lake of Fire and burning sulphur, just like Roman Catholics, Evangelicals and Protestants alike, where unrepentant sinners suffered physically and eternally. Up to now I am seeing a modernist style theology on this that is lax to the core. Bringing to light these very serious doctrinal discrepancies with Roman Catholicism emphasizes the whole issue of the emergence and ripening of these heresies, that they have a far later origin than the early church, and makes the claim crumble Orthodoxy and Catholicism were always one church together. This heresy is so colossal it would demand scrutiny in "a council" of the churches. I am presently unaware of an historical clash over this issue. They strain at gnats and swallow camels. Their doctrine on Hell is pure heresy! The obvious conclusion is, the false teachers of the Orthodox religion deny eternal fire because that is precisely where they are going! There description of Hell sounds like something made up by men trying to look spiritual to weak minded worldly women who cannot face the reality of a lost eternity.
NO DOGMA IN ROME?
In searching for a doctrine or dogma about what Hell actually is in Catholicism however, you may find it difficult to research one. This leads to the absurdity that Roman Catholics actual official stance on Hell s "You will go to Hell for unrepentant mortal sin.... whatever Hell is, because we don't know." If so which is the most absurd? Roman Catholicism's view (or lack of it) of Hell, or the Byzantine Eastern Orthodox view of Hell.
quote from the Orthodox Church in America.org website:
"Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light."
The Eastern Orthodox Church have a staggering heresy about what Hell is. They deny it is a physical Lake of Fire! Over and over again I have found that when people are laid-back and lax about heresy, it is when they do not believe in the fires of hell! Thin, washy-washy, weak-kneed, listless, languid, flat, irresolute, super-spiritualised, feeble doctrines on the nature of eternal hell, embolden sinners to go to the heights of sin thinking their eternal torment will be a watered down and ineffectual threat. In other words the Orthodox description of Hell not only encourages sin, but encourages the worst kind of sins imaginable, such as the mass murder of modern war.
THE NONSENSE OF INDISTINCTION:
Saying things like "Hell is your own reaction to God's love" is not only feminized, platitudinized, and completely euphemistic, it is indistinct, and it is a indistinction hiding the obviousness of the heresy. This is why. The description of Paradise is clear in the bible, a new Earth is created, upon which the city of New Jerusalem descends. Great detail is provided about this city, and even the landscape of the new Earth is described in the Book of Revelation.
But what is the setting of Hell like in Orthodoxy? A room with chairs in it, where Satan, Beelzebub, his demons, and all sinners, sit down moping that they missed out on Paradise, and are tormented by God's love that in varying degrees is discordant with their own level of corruption within their own soul, mind and personality? Where exactly are these people? Is no swearing and no blasphemy allowed? Can they even speak? In what location and of what description is this place? When any description of the location is invented it sounds completely fanciful and even farcical. Only what God says fits! It is indeed a Lake of Fire, literally, of sulphur and smoke and physical torture. Their doctrine on Hell is a prime example of Pharisees inventing their own doctrine, and playing to the gallery about their own "deeper levels" of spirituality. Frankly and straightforwardly it reminds one of the expression Jesus used of a heresy in the seven churches "the deeper things of Satan". Their concept of Hell is supposed to be spiritually deep, but it is in fact lame and encourages sin!
SHARED SAINTS THAT CONTRADICT ORTHODOXY:
The Roman Catholic and Orthodox completely separate view of Hell brings in yet another interesting issue: the fact they in effect "share" saints who express opposite views on Hell. Yet the subject is of enormous doctrinal weight and seriousness. I think you will find that no matter how explicit a shared saint, sage, or hermit's declaration is of literal physical torture in Hell, they will spiritualize it into their own muted perception of Hell, that in effect has little threat to it. Yet if an early writer says things that can be construed as an Evangelical or Orthodox view of communion, it is immediately extolled as a "total proof text" for believing in transubstantiation or metousiosis. This is yet another reason to believe the bible not spurious quotations of people perceived of as saints, when some of them probably never even existed!
It is almost sickening however to see Catholic websites where eternal torture in a lake of fire is "proven" by quotations of everyone outside of the bible. When the bible itself is so clear on it. It is part of a continual strategy in both religions to separate you from the final authority of the Word of God.
IS HELL INCLUDED IN THE GOSPEL:
If "Jesus Saves" is the true gospel, is it necessary to believe what he saves us from in order to truly believe the gospel, and thus be grateful for the true extent of what Jesus delivered us from?
2 PETER 2:4 VERY VERY IMPORTANT:
(see the photo below of the Greek Interlinear KJV)
Before I discuss "What is Hell"? I would like to examine a quite extraordinarily significant scripture, 2 Peter 2:4, where it appears (at least to a person such as myself, not expert in Greek) as if perhaps the rendering of this scripture is one of the few times that the KJV scholars have let us down. If anyone ever found the lost notes the KJV scholars made about translating the bible they would be worth millions, and they might have made (who knows?) the same points I am about to make, rendering my criticism unfair.
1) Firstly - either:
a) There is a place for fallen angels chained out of the attack on humanity, with a special name or names.
b) The place is the place Satan and his demons were originally cast down
and it appears from this scripture (and one in Jude) certain powerful angels have been chained out of the attack on Humanity. So I think it reasonable to assume in the Lake of fire it will be dark, as we see already it is full of smoke. Therefore it is terrible indeed to think that in Hades, which can be logically theorized to be "The waiting place of the damned" there are some demons with the millions of humans, however it says they are chained, not tormenting people with forks as they do in Roman Catholic art. But it is possible to theorize something else, and that is Tartarosas or Tartarus is a separate place for keeping fallen demons. In Paradise Lost the English poet John Milton, when writing in fabulously beautiful blank verse (a kind of rhymeless poetry) had the dilemma of naming the place Satan and his angels were cast down into. He solved this by saying "a place fitliest called Chaos" perhaps thinking it did not necessarily have to be called best called Hades. Is it possible the place Satan and his demon hoards were cast into IS named in the bible? that is Tartarosas or Tartarus (to Anglicize the word), and to go further is it possible it is named twice, also described as "Seirais Zophou" or Caverns of Gloom?
WHAT IS SO CALLED "HELL":
In the English Language the word Hell has come to represent the eternal dwelling place of the damned, thus it is synonymous with the Lake of Fire, and by extension therefore with Hades, as is seen in the KJV bible. However Hades and the Lake of eternal Fire are different, but some might argue the same place, but how can you "cast Dea and Hades" in the Lake of Fire (Hell) if they are the same place? Yet the KJV translates Hades as "Hell". I feel this is one of the very few flaws in the KJV version.
HOW THE BIBLE DESCRIBES HELL:
(page under construction)
in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev 21:8
The environment - it is a Lake
the substance - sulphur and fire
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28
the body is physical - Jesus compares it to the one you have now, only capable of eternal torment
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands (or feet, or eyes) to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:" (Mark 9:43-48)
first notice it says you have a physical body in Hell, hands, feet, eyes, etc.
that the fire goes on for everlasting time
that their bodies have worms in them.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment. Matthew 25:46
it is punishment, forever
"in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Rev 21:8
"And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:50 -
a furnace - it appears that even the most common sort of torment in Hell is compared to a furnace, quite terrible when you think there are degrees of Hell (see Chorazin scripture, and also devouring widows houses).
"Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight." Matthew 11:20-26
more tolerable - there are degrees of torment in a lost eternity.
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation." Matthew 23:14 (Luke 20:47) (Mark 12:40)
the greater damnation - there are degrees of torment in the Lake of Fire.
"And death and hell (Hades) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Revelation 20:14
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Thessalonians 1: 9
"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Greek = "Caverns of Gloom" and Tartarosas or Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;" 2 Peter 2:4
it is dark in Tartarosas and "The Caverns of Gloom"
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 6-7.
demons chained in Hades, under darkness -
the fire is described as vengeance, eternal vengeance -
"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10
"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.............And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God." Rev 14: 9-19
smoke - as well as fire and sulphur
"And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." Luke 16:23-24
"And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence." Luke 16:26
Hades physical characteristic - the great gulf
"[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Heb 10:31
"As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." Matthew 13:40-43.
the angels cast the wicked into Hell -
into quote "a furnace of fire"
they will wail -
they will gnash their teeth together -
THE NAMES OF THE LAKE OF FIRE & HADES?:
The Caverns of Gloom? - Jude
The Lake of Fire
The Second Death
In Matt 7:13 "The Apoleian" in Greek may be yet another name for Hell? (The Destruction). Some bibles translate the words as Hell.
HADES versus HELL:
Hades |ˈheɪdiːz| Greek Mythology
the underworld; the land of the spirits of the dead.
Is the use of this word by God confirmation of the future location of what is called in modern English usage Hell, or the Lake of Fire? Under the surface of the New Earth? Hades appears to be perhaps best described as "the waiting place of those who will be damned" in the new testament, as Death and Hades is emptied into the Lake of Fire.
Be'er Shachat (Hebrew: בְּאֵר שַׁחַת, Be'er Shachath — "pit of corruption")
Tit ha-Yaven (Hebrew: טִיט הַיָוֵן — "clinging mud")
Sha'are Mavet (Hebrew: שַׁעֲרֵי מָוֶת, Sha'arei Maveth — "gates of death")
Besides those mentioned above, there also exist additional terms that have been often used to either refer to Hell in general or to some region of the underworld:
Bor Shaon (Hebrew: בּוֹר שָׁאוֹן — "cistern of sound")
Masak Mavdil (Hebrew: מָסָך מַבְדִּ֔יל, Masak Mabdil — "dividing curtain")
For more information, see Qliphoth.
"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." I Tim 5:6
WHAT DID GREEK AND OLD ENGLISH DEFINE?
define "HELL" remember Rev 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Is it possible "Hell" in Old Eng meant two things, the underworld in general and a place of torment. If so it would make sudden sense of this verse and redeem the KJV from attack on the issue.
same with the Greek "Hades". Did these two words in both pre new testament cultures mean "the underworld in general and a place of torment". In Greek it seems so. Or are is this squirming to try to vindicate the KJV? Actually probably not.
Volume IV - Spirituality
The Kingdom of Heaven
Heaven and Hell
The Ladder of Divine Ascent
The Kingdom of heaven is already in the midst of those who live the spiritual life. What the spiritual person knows in the Holy Spirit, in Christ and the Church, will come with power and glory for all men to behold at the end of the ages.
The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. Now men can live without the love of Christ in their lives. They can exist as if there were no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Church, no spiritual life. At the end of the ages this will no longer be possible. All men will have to behold the Face of Him who “for us men and our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate . . . who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried . . .” (Nicene Creed). All will have to look at Him whom they have crucified by their sins: Him “who was dead and is alive again” (Rev 1.17–18).
For those who love the Lord, His Presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same Presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death. The reality for both the saved and the damned will be exactly the same when Christ “comes in glory, and all angels with Him,” so that “God may be all in all” (1 Cor 15–28). Those who have God as their “all” within this life will finally have divine fulfillment and life. For those whose “all” is themselves and this world, the “all” of God will be their torture, their punishment and their death. And theirs will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Mt 8.21, et al.).
The Son of Man will send His angels and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father (Mt 13.41–43).
According to the saints, the “fire” that will consume sinners at the coming of the Kingdom of God is the same “fire” that will shine with splendor in the saints. It is the “fire” of God’s love; the “fire” of God Himself who is Love. “For our God is a consuming fire” (Heb 12.29) who “dwells in unapproachable light” (1 Tim 6.16). For those who love God and who love all creation in Him, the “consuming fire” of God will be radiant bliss and unspeakable delight. For those who do not love God, and who do not love at all, this same “consuming fire” will be the cause of their “weeping” and their “gnashing of teeth.”
Thus it is the Church’s spiritual teaching that God does not punish man by some material fire or physical torment. God simply reveals Himself in the risen Lord Jesus in such a glorious way that no man can fail to behold His glory. It is the presence of God’s splendid glory and love that is the scourge of those who reject its radiant power and light.
. . . those who find themselves in hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in hell are deprived of the love of God . . . But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed! (Saint Isaac of Syria, Mystic Treatises).
This teaching is found in many spiritual writers and saints: Saint Maximus the Confessor, the novelist Fyodor Dostoevsky. At the end of the ages God’s glorious love is revealed for all to behold in the face of Christ. Man’s eternal destiny—heaven or hell, salvation or damnation—depends solely on his response to this love.
"Where" is the Lake of Fire in Orthodoxy?
Just exactly in what location do the evil people on the Day of Judgement spend eternity? I do not want to put words in their mouths, but it sounds as if the Orthodox are saying "Revelation 22:15 But outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." is saying the saved are in the city of New Jerusalem, and outside, wandering around on the rest of the Earth, or perhaps just outside the walls, are Satan, the demons and the wicked, all feeling tortured by God's love. If not where exactly are they supposed to be?
LAZARUS AND HADES :
note: Orthodoxy seems to discount entirely the belief that some of the dead are in an unconscious state of "sleep" and others, like (perhaps) martyrs, are not. They seem to make a complete commitment to the concept that there is a realm of the dead called Hades, that is subdivided into a place called "Abraham's Bosom" and an area below it that is a torment zone, though some Protestants believe it is a parable not literal (Luke 16:19–31) and thus some believe many of those dead are in a state of sleep until the resurrection and the judgement day of the saved and unsaved.
When Catholics pray that the angels may carry the soul of the departed to "Abraham's Bosom", sometimes from Limbo, they see Abraham himself as being now in heaven. However, the understanding of both Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy preserves the Bosom of Abraham as distinct from heaven.
Hippolytus (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]). quote
this page is a complex issue and is under construction.